Interview with Dandy Livingstone - The Return of a Legend
05/27/2019 by Angus Taylor
Last month, Jamaican-born British reggae pioneer Dandy Livingstone released They Call Us Legends - his first single in 40 years. It's an unexpected reprise from the singer, songwriter and producer: who retired from music and returned to Jamaica on the crest of The Specials’ massive 1979 cover of his 1967 hit Rudy, A Message To You. Along with Prince Buster, you could call Livingstone one of the architects of the Two-Tone punk-meets-ska revival that dominated the first half of the 1980s.
They Call Us Legends utilises a similarly bouncy rhythm and catchy melody to Rudy - with Dandy's sweet, delicate voice still familiar through modern pitch correction software. The accompanying video includes cameos from foundation UK reggae group The Cimarons and Mixing Lab studio owner Roy Francis.
Dandy’s claim to legendary status rests on a decorated career in London during the sixties and early seventies. As a singer he scored hits including What A Life, Rudy, Reggae in Your Jeggae and Suzanne Beware Of The Devil. The latter two were issued via subsidiaries of the iconic Trojan label - with whose fortunes he was intimately entwined. As a producer he commissioned the original reggae cut of Neil Diamond’s Red Red Wine - sung by Tony Tribe (and later covered by UB40).
Dandy's decision to leave music at the height of his powers in 1983 is almost unique among reggae artists. The closest parallel is US soul singer Bill Withers, who walked away two years after - and lived on his royalties ever since.
Angus Taylor spoke to Dandy on the phone one morning at his home in Redhills, Jamaica. He told the story of his life and his most famous musical adventures. He was forthright about seeing himself more as a businessman than an entertainer, and explained how this helped him navigate his way to the comfortable existence he enjoys today.
Let's go back to the beginning. Where in Jamaica were you born?
I was born in Kingston. In a place called Kencot. I was born there but I left there at a very tender age of like 2 or 3 years old. Then we moved further uptown and I went to primary school in Half Way Tree. And then I left for England at age 15.
Why did your mother decide to go to England?
Well, the marriage went sour so she just decided to make a big change at the time. And of course I followed suit about three years after.
Ansell Collins is your cousin - but you didn't really move together that much when you were a child in Jamaica.
Yeah, he's my first cousin. I saw him a little but not much.
So you and him were interested in music independently?
That's right. I didn't even know he was a musician! (laughs)
Is there music on either your mother or father's side of the family?
No. Apart from the usual. Mum sang in church a few times but she wasn't really a church person as such. But we went to the occasional Sunday service and stuff like that.
What was it like arriving in England at the age of 15? It must have been a big change.
It was a big change but I enjoyed it. When you're young you're very adventurous – or most of us are. So it was like a challenge. (laughs)
Were you interested in music before you left?
No, not really. My father he was a jazzman. He had all these records of things. Jump blues, progressive jazz, the old Ella Fitzgerald, name them…
What was your first experience of music in England?
I don't know if you remember a group called The Marvels? Dimples Hinds, he passed a couple of years ago. Dimples was a family friend from Jamaica. I didn't see much of him really in Jamaica but he was a family friend. My mum and his sister were friends. Anyway in England Dimples started the Marvels in I think ’62 and I was invited down to one of his rehearsals that took place at Sonny Roberts’ studio, in Cambridge Road. From there I went down a couple of times and I met Lee Gopthal. He was doing this mail-order thing and I started to think “Yeah, this is good”, you know? From there I just got into music myself.
How did you meet Lee?
Lee actually owned the building where Sonny Roberts was at the time. Sonny was in the basement and Chris Blackwell was on the first floor I think. Lee was doing this mail-order thing. I mean in those days Jamaican music sold a lot. We got talking and Lee asked me if I would be interested in selling a few records for him, in the week or weekend time.
It sounded good and it was fun to have all these 45s you know? The Prince Busters, the Derrick Morgan and people like that. It was really fun and I sold about a box. The first weekend I was feeling a bit nervous like “How am I going to sell these?” But it went well. It went very, very well. And I remember calling Lee and he said to come back for some more. I went and the thing went well! I got money to pay my bus fare and things like that.
It must have been quite good to have some grounding in the business side before you started to launch yourself into the music as an artist?
Right. I was fortunate, you know? I was fortunate to get that experience. For my parents, music was like a taboo. When I told my mum I was going to do this she said “What?” (laughs) Because at the time I was doing toolmaking and I was going to college. As a parent: “Music? No, you're crazy!” Anyway, we got over that hurdle and she settled down and I did my thing.
Up until this day I'm not an entertainer. I don't see myself as an entertainer because my thing in the music business was the business part of it as you mentioned earlier. The production part of it and things like that. And I learnt a lot from Lee Gopthal. We were friends. We had fun. He had parties and I was there. I had parties and he was there. We really had fun. I don't know if you heard it before but Lee was instrumental in getting me started in the recording.
So you started recording in 1964 for Carnival Records?
At the time when I was selling records for Lee. He called me one day. He didn't say “Dandy” then - he said “Robert - how would you like to do some form of recording?” Because he knew Mr. Crawford from Carnival Records. I had to think about it for a few weeks and I called him and I said “Lee, yeah I want to do the audition”. Because I felt ready then. He made the appointment for me. And I went down to sing a couple of tunes. Humpty Dumpty by Eric Morris was the audition song. (laughs)
We were doing the first session and the songwriters, the producers were two white guys - Jay and Geoffrey. They arranged the whole thing. I think the studio was called Advision in Bond Street. We did three songs. Two of theirs, one of mine. And we did another session with three of their songs but I wasn't happy with their songs as such. So the idea of What A Life, if you listen you’ll hear it's reminiscent of Humpty Dumpty! (laughs) Give thanks to Eric Morris. And that was it. I recorded that on the third session and it was a big seller. I heard it was a big, big, big seller.
Tell me how you ended up being in a duo with yourself? Sugar And Dandy?
Well from the beginning with Carnival they wanted a duo or a group. So I turned up with some chap, I can't remember his name now, but he wasn't ready. He wasn't really a singer. I wasn't either but I was more advanced than him and I had more experience. On the day of the session he was poor – very, very poor. I was a little bit embarrassed because the guys were saying “Come on let's get it on, let's get it on, right?” Then they said “Dandy, how about you doing it alone?” “Alone? Alright!” I did it and at the time I didn't know what double tracking was all about - to be honest with you. But we did it. I went back in the booth and sang the harmony and they put it out as Sugar And Dandy. And it was a hit! (laughs)
Was it two track or four track in the studio at that time? I know it was two track in Jamaica…
It had to be two track. But they used to do, what do you call it… jump tracks?
They’d bounce the two tracks that were recorded into the next one and have room to overdub…
Yeah, that's right bounce it - that's the word yeah. You'd bounce it over to another machine right? Yeah man, it was fun learning all those things.
How did you take the name Dandy?
It was Sugar And Dandy right. It came about and it sounded good to me. And I tell people this I didn't want to be called Sugar! (laughs) I didn't want to be called Sugar so I was called Dandy. I didn't mind that his name came first. You be Sugar, I'll be the Dandy!
Then there were a couple of people that were brought in to join Sugar And Dandy – over the years…
Right. There was what's his name - he passed a few years ago? Tito Simon. Jackie Foster was another of his aliases? I think he was actually named [Keith] Foster. So we got together and we did a few things but he was into his solo thing. Which is understandable because he was a good singer. Better than me! (laughs) But as you said early on I had the experience. I was more experienced in the whole setup of the studio at that time. So we learnt from each other. And he went off and did his solo thing after a while. So then came Roy Smith - again he passed a few years ago. And we did a few things together and after that went and did his thing again. He went into this cabaret thing you know? One man band thing. But we were good pals still.
So what was the next step after Carnival Records?
The next step was Rita King. Ska Beat. After Carnival I took time out and concentrated on my schooling and work. Rita King she had a shop in Stratford where there is a market. Rita was selling loads of records of course because in those days Jamaican music sold like hotcakes. So one day she said “Dandy, what are you doing?” And I said “I'm not doing anything.” She had moved to North London to… what's the name of the place?
Stamford Hill. She had moved to that location. We got chatting and I went back and saw her about 6 months after that and she said “Are you ready?” And I said “Yeah, I've got a song here that could be interesting”. We started an album Rock Steady With Dandy and in the middle of the set an idea struck me. You know because of all these rude boy songs were happening? I wrote Rudy in two minutes. You could say I wrote it, but I just went in the studio and did it! (laughs) Yeah 10 minutes or 15 minutes something like that. And up until this day Rudy is all over the place.
When you listened back to it for the first time, did you think “Wow this is going to be a hit” or “This is going to be an iconic song?”
No, you don't think about these things at the time. What I do remember was I had a very bad cold at the time. And you know like you put on a “rough voice”?
A guide vocal?
To go back some other day and do the right thing? And when I played it to Rita and Benny her husband and a couple of other people who were there - everybody started saying “Yeah this is good, this is good”. So I said to myself “Yeah this is good, ok I'll leave it as it is”. It was just a rough thing for, what do you call that thing? Acetate? So I said “Oh well if they like it I'll leave it”. And that was it. Message To You, Rudy (laughs)
How did Rico Rodriquez come to be in the session?
Ok, so he did the trombone on it. I love trombone. A lot of my songs if you listen, you'll hear a trombone playing! Rico, I was told that he was very hard to get on with. I was told that it wouldn't happen. He was like fresh from Jamaica you know what I mean? And I said “Look, I must get Rico on this thing”. And I remember I couldn't locate him. But eventually I did. I remember again people kept saying to me “He won't turn up he won't turn up” but he turned up. Old Kent Road. That studio was Maximum Sound, right? Vic Keary. But he turned up.
And I remember Rico said to me “What you want me play?” In that Jamaican way. Remember I'm a little young youth now and you're the great Rico, boy! So I said to him “Play the melody line. Play the melody in the intro.” I remember we ran it down a couple of times and they played the tape back because he was overdubbing you know? Because the track was there. A guy called Pepsi played tenor and I knew him from about a year or so before. So he said “What do you want me to play in the solo?” I said “Play the same riff. The intro riff and you can alternate the solo differently right?” And that was it! Rudy was born.
So, tell me how you got into production?
Production came easy. I always do my thing Angus. I spend my own money. I don't depend on people. Up to this day I don't depend on people to spend on me. I wasn't afraid. I wasn't afraid to spend my own money. Most artists don't do that. And we understand why they do that. A lot of artists can't really afford it. But I was adventurous in spending my own money.
Were you working in other non-musical jobs at the time?
I remember I quit daytime jobs in about ’68 around Rudy time.
What kind of jobs were you doing before?
Engineering and toolmaking. I worked in Leyton. My apprenticeship started at Prince Regent Lane in Plaistow. And from there with Rita King in ’68 I just decided to hang on into music. And that was that. I'll tell you something. Come royalties time now, Rita was a charming Jewish lady. (laughs) It was hard to really have an argument with Rita. She was very charming. But me? If I do work - pay me. I don't like to be messed about. And days upon days upon weeks upon weeks she kept saying “Dandy, you'll still get your statement.” I said “I don't want a statement, I want the statement with the money”. (laughs)
So she was lingering then lingering and I had her car. I used to drive a car that she bought. You know the car called Anglia right? Brand new. She didn't see me for about 3 weeks! I expected her to send the police after me because it was her car. In her name. In the company name. But I said to myself “I'm going to hang on to this because she won't give me my royalties”. I had a word with my mum and right away my mum said “I told you shouldn't get into this thing!” (Laughs)
So did you get your royalties?
I fought for it and I got some. Yeah, she paid up. That records sold about 30,000 at the time. I mean she showed me something. It could have been 60 I don't know. You'll never get the right amount of royalties do you? (laughs) But I was satisfied anyway. I said to Rita “I've been away two or three weeks now, I thought you would send the police after me “. She said “Dandy, I know you're an honest chap. I knew you’d turn up one day with the vehicle.”
How did Lee Gopthal start Trojan Records and sign you in 1968?
Well, you must have heard along the way they were fighting over releases. Chris Blackwell and Lee Gopthal they would release the same song…
They were distributing Jamaican releases…
And in the end they decided “Look let's just form one thing, one company together”. And that's basically how it's started. Lee joined forces with Chris and Trojan Records started. And Bunny Lee, this is a true story… Bunny Lee, I think it was his first trip to the UK and the first time I was going to meet Bunny. Lee was juggling with names to name this new company and he went through about six or seven names and he said “Dandy and Bunny, how about Trojan?” And I remember saying “Well everybody knows Trojan, all Jamaican people in England know Trojan.” Then Bunny jumped up and was like “Yeah man! Trojan!” And that was it. Bunny, myself and Lee were in Lee’s office just the three of us that morning.
So did your experiences with royalties influence you to say “I want to start producing artists myself”?
You know along the way, like I said, you learn. I remember at Trojan people would lie in the corridor, artists hanging around for money, you know what I mean? I thought “What's this? I hope I get mine.” But as you know Angus you have some peculiar people in the world. Artists are very temperamental, aren't they? Most of us. So I learned from them that “Hey, I want to make sure I get my share.”
You produced duets with Audrey Hall - how did you meet her?
Ok through a friend I met Audrey in ’69. I think it was she was living somewhere over in Deptford or Lewisham, southeast anyway. I took her to the studio for the first time and I was the first person to record Audrey. And we did a few things together. I spoke to her about a two months ago, funnily enough. She's in New York.
Because she went on to do a lot of things - singing with Donovan Germain and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah she went on and did her thing as well. That's what we all need, don't we?
And you also produced your old friends who gave you your start - the Marvels?
Yeah, I did a few things with Dimples. We were friends like I said - family friends. I tell you Angus looking back in the 60s we were all learning - we were all learners! But after a while you have to throw away the L plate you know? (laughs) But it was fun. Because what it was with we people in England at the time recording, you had to do your own thing in the sense of enjoy yourself and things like that. You know how the skinheads [reggae] came about? At the time most musicians couldn't play the heavy Jamaican beat. All the studios couldn't get that authentic sound so we were doing a thing until we just created our own British sound.
Which songs would you say created that sound?
There were several. For instance Red Red Wine. You’ll think this is a joke but we recorded it one take in 5 minutes. It was just something at the back of my brain. It was this guy what's his name? Tony Mossop [aka Tony Tribe]. He recorded it. He used to call me about three times a day. Whether I was at home or Trojan. And I said “One of these days I’ll record you man. One of these days.”
And as fate would have it over in South West London I did a session. Not Reggae In Your Jeggae, I can't remember the song. But anyway the musicians were packing up and I remembered Red Red Wine and said “Guys play”. But the musicians had started to pack up so it's not a good thing to ask them to unpack after 4 hours in the studio. Anyway, I begged them and they came back and it was supposed to be like a demo. It wasn't planned or anything. They just rushed it. I went home and played the reel-to-reel but I didn't like it at all. Because there were, to be honest with you, mistakes in this thing. Anyway I took it down to Trojan, played the tracks and people loved it! Just like Rudy!
And again just like Rudy it got picked up by a white group a decade later and off it went.
People loved it! So I called Tony Tribe - Tony Mossop - and when he heard it he loved it! I didn't say anything to him about not liking it! (laughs) And he went back in the studio week after and he voiced it and that was it. I didn't change anything.
Can you tell me about 1969’s Reggae In Your Jeggae?
These days some of the new generation of singers call that reggae the skinheads liked “jeggae”. I coined the word, right? Jeggae! (laughs) Reggae In Your Jeggae was Maximum Sound, Old Kent Road. Again, it was one of those tunes, nothing planned as usual. An idea came to me “reggae reggae reggae reggae reggae in your jeggae”. You know I was embarrassed? To even think about Reggae In Your Jeggae. I'm serious! Anyway, people ask me “What is Jeggae?” I don't know - it's up to your imagination!
In 1972 you got into the British charts with Suzanne Beware Of The Devil.
That's another one as well. Suzanne Beware Of The Devil was done twice in London and I wasn't happy and I recorded it in Jamaica in 1971 or ’72 at Dynamic. It stood on the shelf for about a year. For some reason I didn't voice it or anything. Anyway, we did What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For and Trojan decided to rush release it, so in those days you had to have a B side.
I didn't have a B side and I remembered Suzanne so I went in the studio about 6 in the morning. Vic Keary at Camden Chalk Farm right? I had unfinished lyrics so I just made up some lyrics as I go. Vic wasn't happy at all in that he had to be in the studio at 6 in the morning. Anyway I just made Suzanne Beware Of The Devil very fast and it came out as a B-side.
And do you remember Emperor Rosko? In the clubs he played Suzanne. He flipped it. And he called Trojan one day and said “You guys have a hit record here”. So Trojan said “Which one?” and he said “Dandy's tune”. This is coming from Lee Gopthal, he was telling me this. He said “What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For?” Rosko told him and f-word right? And said “No, the f-ing B side!” (laughs) Lee turned to him and said “What is on the B side?” He didn't even know what was on the B side! That must have been funny right? Lee said “Really?” “Yes the kids are loving it! Suzanne Beware Of The Devil!”
By this time Nicky Thomas had just come off Love Of The Common People right? He tried to follow-up and nothing happened. Lee called me and said “Dandy, do you mind Nicky Thomas doing Suzanne? Because Emperor Rosko said the kids are loving it”. Now Angus I said “Yeah why not? It's my song, so if it's a hit so I'll get the royalties anyway. Songwriter royalties.” Little did I know that the kids didn't want to know about Nicky Thomas's version. They wanted my authentic rough vocals (laughs) and that was it! Two weeks after that Suzanne was out and in another two weeks I was on Top Of The Pops. Just like that!
Then you took a different turn with your song Black Star and your 1973 album Conscious.
I was writing songs, you know? A lot of songs and somehow there was this guy who ran Mooncrest. Lee was involved with it somehow too, in the company. Charisma people were involved or something like that. And they asked me to do an album to match their set up so I did the album and that was it. Nothing became of it really. (laughs) There are a couple of nice songs on it.
The lyrical content was much more in line with the lyrics that were happening in Jamaica at the same time. In terms of talking about consciousness and racism.
Well I'm a conscious person. Very conscious. And I guess that's how the whole thing came about. Black Star. I remember Chris Blackwell, he loved it. I understood that Chris was interested in Black Star that someone redo it or re-record it or something. But then I never heard anything more about that! (laughs)
Did you experience much racism when you were in England?
It was there. It's like this Angus. I remember one day at school I came into class after lunch and my books were all over the floor. That was a one-off thing. Afterwards nobody did it. Along the way there were a few things but I didn't look for it. Because anything you look for you will find. But like I said to you before I am conscious so I know what is going on. But I don't dwell on it. But if you mess with me then that's a different thing. I'm not an aggressive person. I don't like wars but I know how to defend myself.
Did you meet Bob Marley when he was in England?
Never. You know something? I must be one of the only guys in reggae music who never met most of these guys. I just met Ken Boothe about a month ago! For the very first time. Never met Alton Ellis. I've seen him.
Because Ken must have been on Top Of The Pops only a couple of years after you? He was number one in 1974.
Oh ok! Well I never met him until about a month ago. I never met Alton Ellis. I never met all these guys. I'm serious.
By the mid-70s Trojan was having financial problems and was sold for the first of many times…
Because even Lee Gopthal we fell out in the end one time, you know? I had to get really aggressive with Lee. You know, serious? This is the first time I'm telling anybody. This is when Trojan folded right? All I wanted was to get back my copyright of my songs. My copyrights.
And Lee had me stringing along going around in circles for almost three years. Because I was planning to come back to Jamaica but I didn't want to leave anything undone in England. All I wanted was to get back my 92 songs that were in B&C music. And Lee was stressing me out. He was stressing me out - every day is “Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow” and in the end I got them back. But I had to get really, really... You know? Sort of tough.
Lee was a great guy. Couldn't fault him but business is business. And I learnt the business from a long time. Don't mess about with Dandy when it comes to paying me my money. All I wanted was “Just give me my statement and pay me”. That's all. Just don't carry me around in circles. I hate that.
So how did you go from being the go-to-guy for reggae in London to becoming dissatisfied with the music scene and going back to Jamaica?
I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied. A time came when I just wanted to relocate back to Jamaica. I can't even explain it. I said to my wife one day “Look we're going back to Jamaica”. She said “We're going back to Jamaica?” I said “Yeah”. I wasn't selfish. I took her back for the first time after 13 years. I think it was 1980. That was her first time back. Because she left as a tender age as well. I think she left at 12 or 13. So we came back in 1980. I said so “This is Jamaica - you remember it?” (laughs) We went back and of course over the months she kept asking me “Are you sure?” and I said “I'm sure. But I want you to be sure as well”. In the end she decided and she said “Yeah ok”. And that was it we came back in ’83. And we never looked back.
So when Rudy became a hit for The Specials weren't you tempted to stick around and enjoy some of the glory? When the whole two-tone thing got really big in the 80s?
No, no, no. It was a 1979 wasn't it? At that time we were planning to relocate. It was tentative then at the time. I remember sitting one evening. I think it was Top Of The Pops and I saw this group. I didn't know about the Specials. I had never heard of them. And I said “Look that's Rudy!” A big thing to me at the time right? I couldn't believe it honestly. And when my wife came in, I said “Hey this group did Rudy”. And she said “Really? On Top Of The Pops?” So of course I started to make an inquiry about the publishing. Because nobody contacted me or nothing.
You'd already registered your songs hadn’t you?
Yeah man, yeah man. Long time.
When did you start registering your songs?
It must have been from in the 60s. When I started out. ’64.
Who did you learn to do that from? I say that because a lot of artists in Jamaica didn't learn that until it was too late.
Yes and a lot of them still don't learn either! I'd finished school in London. It was a different scene. We were more educated where that was concerned. I made sure I found out from Rita King and Lee Gopthal in the early days “What is copyright?” Because when I used to look at the record labels I would see “so-and-so music” the names of the writers and things and it must mean something. So I inquired! (laughs)
So you said you made an inquiry into the cover of Rudy?
Yes. I got a call from Carlin music who still publish my things. Eddy Grant called me but I said to myself “No, no, no”. Eddy Grant put £250 in my hands and said “Let me publish that”. Eddy contacted me - you know when you're a winner everybody loves you? (laughs) Eddy said to me “Dandy I'll give you £250 now” and he put the money in my hand. I said to Eddie “What is this for?” He said “It's your advance, so I want to be with the publisher of this song”. He said “Go away with the money” and I went home with the money not signing anything of course because I was smart. (laughs)
Anyway I gave Eddy back the money. I gave him back £200 a week after. He said “Dandy how are you giving me this back?” I said “Eddy please, the song is signed over with some other people.” I'm serious right? I gave him back his money. I kept £50 for the... antagonising. (laughs) No, I'm serious Angus. Anyway, to cut a long story short Carlin contacted me and I went down and we discussed and I signed the deal. And that was it. And I'm glad I did - trust me! Up until this day I get my royalties on time. They're professionals, Carlin music. And they've been publishing all my works ever since.
When you came back to Jamaica you went into a completely different business - the souvenirs business.
Yeah, we started a business. We started this distribution company. We distribute souvenirs. Crafts and souvenirs to various places hotels, and things like that. We imported people, of course, the business grew. So we have reps on the road and things like that. And yeah give thanks and praise.
Congratulations on your new single They Call Us Legends - why did you decide to put out a single after so much time?
Well you know Angus, music it's always there. It's in the blood, right? So out of boredom I play golf and a couple of other things and I just went into the studio you know? I wrote the song and I think it was a good idea and people are loving it.
The video shows you in the studio with the Cimarons. It also has shots of murals of people like Dennis Brown, Big Youth, Augustus Pablo and Millie Small.
Well the Cimarons happened to be in town. Somehow we made contact and I said “Come on down, I'm doing the video tomorrow”. And they were right on top of things. They came down and we just had some fun you know? It wasn't planned at all. So it worked out properly you know? They just happened to be nearby and I just called them.
In the video Roy Francis is at the controls - was it recorded in Mixing Lab studio?
No, it wasn't recorded at Roy’s, it was at Computer Paul’s studio.
So how come Roy Francis is in the video?
(Laughs) Well he's a legend. But yes, we did shoot a few scenes there. Do you know Joe Spinner? His thing is right at that place, you know? So we were there and everything just came together.
And do you have any plans to tour - any shows coming up?
Not at the moment. I'm just watching the single and seeing what happens. I've been offered shows but they're one-off little shows. I'm not into those things. If something comes up and it makes sense then I'll do it.
You're in a position to do what you want. Especially these days when the music doesn’t sell as well as when you started.
Yeah of course. And thank God I can pick and choose what to do. I don't have to jump and do all these little gigs you know what I mean? I'm not a young man. I'm not going to go out there every night, every night – no, no, no. You have heard about many of our fellow artists who have dropped down on stage. No, no, no way. I'm not saying it might not happen to me but not under those conditions.